Health Care and Rational Debate?I keep seeing libs talk about how unwilling Republicans are to have a rational debate so my challenge is to them. All I've seen is verbal attacks against the opposition and ZERO reasons why we should adopt a Government Health Insurance plan.
If we are to have a rational debate, please cite WHY you support Obama's vision of Health Care -- and don't cite "reform" -- everyone wants "reform":
1. How has private insurance failed?
2. Are you insured? Have you ever been denied treatment?
3. Is Government really going to bring cost down when they're a primary component in the high costs of health care?
4. Is Medicare a beacon of "hope" or just another failed Government insurance program?
5. What specifics in the bill do you like?
6. Are there any parts of the bill you'd change?
7. Do you think it's a short-term solution or long-term solution?
8. Do you see it leading to single-payer?
9. Does rationing affect your decision? Medicare DOES ration...all insurance policies do...the question is, do you want Government in charge of those decisions?
10. Do you think business owners will drop their employees from the employer sponsored plan and opt for the Government plan? If so, how does that affect cost to the rest of us?
11. Does it worry you that Geithner and Obama have been avoiding the Middle Class Tax Increase question -- saying "all options need to be left on the table?"
12. Is it the Government's job to teach you how to raise your children?
13. Is the Federal Government taking on too big of role in our lives? Do you see that expansion impeding on State rights?
14. Mass., Oregon, Hawaii and California's attempts at Government health care have all failed -- do we keep chipping away "hoping" we'll get lucky?
15. Do you understand how insurance works?
16. Do you feel responsible (as an individual) to mitigate your own financial risk?
17. Do you know what the UNFUNDED liabilities are for the program? Is it safe to base a long term decision upon short term estimates (10 years)?
18. Is emotional rationale a big part your decision?
19. Is health care a fundamental right?
20 . Do we cripple the poor by "giving them a fish" rather than "teaching them how to fish"?
Let the rational dialogue begin.
Noah -- Thank you for proving your argument rests solely on your disdain for the industry and the opposition and has nothing to do w/ your SUPPORT for the bill...which is the point of my question. Any "change" will do I suppose, even if that change comes at the expense of real reform. And if you allow me to connect the dots for you, the HEALTH INSURANCE BILL isn't sustainable long term, it's short-term patch -- it will turn into SINGLE-PAYER when the Government "comes to the rescue" again, a policy detrimental to HEALTH CARE. What are you talking about here? "I'll bet he does...how sick is that"? Attack, attack, attack. That's all you have. I'd bet if I gave you a second and third shot at answering my question I'd get nothing but Obama tag-lines and emotionally driven drivel. Pull you head out of the sand...if it's reform you want, you first need to understand the bills being proposed.
Posted by vwvw20
Libs and Chicago messiah does not want debate--they want you to sit down, shut up and send him all your money--Period--
They know they cannot win this if the true fact come out (CBO has volumes on the disaster this is)--This is Chicago Style Politics--Mobster tactics is all Barry O knows--the Liar he is and always has been.
Posted by Loyd/Mary P
Well said , but way too rational for the blind and deaf Democrats who look only to the new Potentate to think for them . They have an unused portion of their head that is now filled with ideas that were used back in the early 1940'a by a man wanting to be in charge of the world and who was very charamatic.
Posted by Noah H
Rational dialogue rests on the premise of the discussion. There is no HEALTH CARE bill. There is a HEALTH INSURANCE bill. Who is against a 'public option' HEALTH INSURANCE venue? Answer: The HEALTH INSURANCE industry. Follow the money and the answer is clear who's against a public option and no amount of propaganda to the contrary can change that fact. How do we know? The HEALTH INSURANCE industry spends MILLIONS of dollars on lobbying firms and even more millions in direct 'contributions' to congress members to insure that NO REFORM of the HEALTH INSURANCE industry EVER becomes law. ALL of the above 'questions' are red herring arguments as NOBODY has EVER suggested changing the HEALTH CARE industry. The government isn't going to own the hospitals or put doctors on the public payroll....the reactionaries know this, but they want you to believe otherwise. How sick is that?
Health care actually is a right....that's why there's a federal law that insists that ERs treat all comers insured or not. Does the guy that asked this 'question' think that law should be repealed? I'll bet he does.....how sick is that?
Posted by Boomer Wisdom
Libs haven't read the House version of the bill, obviously.
Now, why is it that I can read the 10th Amendment but our Fearless Leaders only see a blank spot in the Constitution where it used to be?
Posted by mark_hensley@sbcglobal.net
I do not consider myself to be liberal, hopefully it will not disqualify my answers.
1. Medical outcomes in the U.S. have not improved over the last decade. Private health insurance costs continues to rise and you get less coverage. In this example long term care insurance encompasses our population getting older as well as clean cost index to sustain health care by private insurance. Who will be able to afford the cost in 3 -10 years?
2. Yes I am insured and yes I have been denied treatment multiple times and I am healthy. Since I know how the system works I have manged to get what I need, the same for my elderly parents.
3. Yes government will really bring cost down. It is know worldwide that you cannot do business with the government unless you are the lowest and most responsive bidder, the only exception is the defense industry. This cuts both ways because government removes the profit motive, central to any business model. This is settled fact.
4. Medicare is running out of money, but it in large part it has achieved the intended mission. It came out of the depression era. Retired and elderly people where digging through trash, they had no pension and no health care. Medicare was designed to be safety net and to rid America of the problem of literally leaving people who have worked all of their lives, without anything due to the economy.
5. What I specifically like in the bill, I don't know is in the bill(s). I think that if we are paying for health care for Congress we should be eligible for the same thing. If it is not affordable to us, it is not affordable for them. Then they should have my plan and your health plan, let's call it even.
6. I would change the part of the bill that is unclear on how we would pay for this, if I knew what was in the bill. lol. I hear it is 3-4 bills in the Congress.
7. If the Congress deals with what we can afford it is a short term solution. I cannot say to you definitively that the nation can afford a long term solution. Certainly above my pay grade.
8. No I don't see it leading to single payer. I don't see it leading to anything yet, because I don't know enough about the bills.
9. Take a look at the stock listing for health care and equipment services below. Hell no I don't want government in charge of rationing my health insurance. Veterans Affairs health insurance is a good example of the question you raise. We all know how screwed up health insurance is for our service members. I feel exactly the same way about UHC, Aetna and Blue Cross Blue Shield. The only difference is one makes record profits, the other is incompetent.
10. Business will always take the path of least resistance when it comes to costs. Especially now. If small business does not have to pay for health care overhead I would think they would be very happy. They can put that money elsewhere. What cost swould be passed on to the end user?
11. It doesn't bother me, if this is going to be done it has to be paid for. Do I like it? No. At least they have the political courage to eventually have the discussion.
12. It is not the governments job to teach us how to raise our children. It is the governments job to make sure the water is pure, peanut butter is not contaminated and mad cow diseases is a non-starter.
13. Business is not able to bail us out. I don't see how government has much of a choice moving forward. This train started rolling during the Bush Administration, now we hear the rumble and the whistle.
14. We have to learn from our mistakes and not do the exact same thing that caused them to fail. What positives did we learn? Isn't that how we should deal with our own affairs?
15. Yes indeed. I have been in the industry for better than a decade.
16. I have to mitigate my own financial risk, but I have to have something to mitigate with. Isn't this why we are having this discussion?
17. No I don not yet know the unfunded liabilities for the program. I know the Congress has passed trillions of dollars for defense spending leaving us with unfunded liabilities. I am not saying it is right, but again, we need to learn from our mistakes in governance. As far as safe, nothing is safe to base any decision on any premise. It is all guess work, conjecture and calculus. It is for this reason, the lies about health care mucks up getting anything done, when something clearly needs to be done for the good of the public.
18. No.
19. Health care can be a fundamental right, however, it is not. In Sweden, Canada, Britain and the U.S. Congress health care is a fundamental right. In fact it is entitlement.
20. If you have an Apple Ipod flip it in the back and see where it is built. It is built by that country's poor. South Korea poor builds LG (Living Good) TV's, Hyundai Motors, they don't have unions and all make a living wage. Now, compare the nexus of cash flow and the skills of China and Korea's poor and ask yourself the same question. Our poor don't have the opportunity to build anything for Apple. What opportunities do our poor have compared to the poor working class in China and India?
Source(s):
1. http://www.unum.com/employees/WhatIsYour…
4. http://www.shmoop.com/great-depression/f…
5.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-steve-…
9a. http://investing.businessweek.com/resear…
9b. http://veterans.house.gov/hearings/heari…
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